Forum Activity for @TONNY

Thanks Mark, I agree the 200-300 Chinese machines are not going to cut it and the Cacao Cucina press are expensive and overpriced. So I decided to desgin my own and have it made by a local machinist. I am now looking at Multiple designs like Grenada, Mindo and Cacao Cucina and come up with the optimal design.

As a first observation, Grenada is using a 6" OD Cylinder simliar to the Cacao Cucina.  

Cacao Cucina is using a 75 Ton press can generate a presure of 5,839 PSI over the 6" diameter circular surface

On the other hand, Grenada is using only a 20 Ton press over the same 6" diameter circular surface which leave them with 1,557 PSI, they can gain more 45% PSI  (2,242 PSI) with the same 20 T press if they narrow down the cyclinder diameter by 1" and increase its height enough to keep the volume of liquor the same (for example: Cyclinder with 6" D x 12" Height volume is 5.5 Liter and of 5" x 18" volume is 5.7 Liter).

The bottom line you will able to get a 5,605 PSI if you use a Dake 50 T press (Cost $4,000) and wrap the cylinder with a 110 V heater heating blanket Jacket with thermostat ($125) which close enough to get you where Cacao Cucina is without paying top dollars (at near 1/5 of the price) and this is all with seamless stainless steel tubes, plugs and butter collector pan with sanitary discharge. 

Hi Alain, did you buy the small Mindo press or did you have it made by a machinist? Can you share the dimension of the Cylinder? (Diameter, Length and Wall thickness) - I am working on a design right now and I would like to get details about existing equipement.

How long does it take approximately to extract the 650g of butter?

Many thanks!

Tony

Jim,  Just so we don't confuse folks:

While it's true that a simple chocolate ganache (cream/chocolate) with an aW below <0.85 is going to take longer to spoil that one at aW >0.9, basically the target of aW<0.85 is to prevent the outgrowth of pathogens (i.e. aW <0.95) and at aW <0.85 inhibit spoilage by most yeasts. Just because a food has a aW <0.85 doesn't mean it is 'stable' just unlikely to harbor pathogens, and less likely to ferment at RT.

Are you making homemade fruit puree?  aW 0.93? What's the final pH and the starting and final Brix?

What one can make as a pastry chef and serve 'fresh' to diners versus something that can legally be sold in Interstate or even in-state commerce is of course quite different.  Notter's recipes are fine flavoured but are not developed with production, storage and offsite sales in mind.

Regarding your two layer 'jelly' product:

In many States and per the FDA's  food safety rules;  Jam and Jelly / fruit sryups should have a pH <4.0 and or an aW <0.8 - 0.85 to be regarded as a non-hazardous food stuff.     It's my understanding that 'Pate de fruit'  made with commercial Brix 10 starting puree and cane sugar typically fits the bill here, given the final Brix after boiling, and low pH levels following pectin/ tartaric / citric acid addition.  I've never measured the aW of PdF,  but it lasts at RT for months if stored dusted in sugar in sealed containers.

FYI: Outside of the pH and aW parameters above,  typically to make and sell legally a 'jelly' in the USA you to need to attend an 'approved food processing school' and follow the FDA rules which most States now also follow as you could be making a potential hazardous food for resale.   You also need to register with FDA.

Considering your 'Jelly' layer:

According to the the experts, in certain situations with some foodstuffs the relationship between total moisture content and or aW is not necessarily directly predictive of shelflife.  According to the reference materials I have seen, for jams and fruit syrups <0.8 aW is the level necessary to stop most moulds and bacteria such a S. Aureus.   Fruit jams (e.g. your pate de fruit layer?) may be such that halophilic bacteria could grow even at just aW 0.75. (hence pH adjustment is typically necessary for ensuring food safety).   Did you add acid during production e.g. citric acid with the pectin?     When water activity of a food stuff like a gel is likely not a good predictor of shelf life or even protection from microbiological spoilage, a shelf life study and or challenge trial with the formulation to determine food safety /spoilage may be needed.  

Plus, in a two layer product one with a component with relatively high moisture content (gel - pate de fruit into ganache?) there may be some water migration, which can both change texture and also allow aquired free water to promote spoilage in another fraction with an initially low aW.  I've seen a thin layer of cocoa butter sometimes suggested to prevent migration between layer confections.

Potential Changes to PdF:

Dextrose would lower the aW some, sorbitol would only modestly lower the aW (taste changes) ditto for adding more invert (too sweet?).   n.b. You are already getting some invertion of sucrose during the boiling stage assuming you are boiling the fruit?  If the pH is <4.X  you may already have a 'safe' product... (n.b.  not a binding opinion just a projection)

Sidenote: Actually, Glycerol has a greater antimicrobiological effect at the same aW than Sorbitol, hence may commercial praline formulae therefore use both Sorbitol and Glycerol (both taste horrible in ganache in my view,)  I'm not sure they would do much in your jelly?)

Several ways to potentially 'improve' this formulation....Drive off some water increasing the Brix of the initial fruit component, use some dextrose as well as sucrose (perhaps you could even use freeze dried fruit), decrease the pH <ph 4.0 using citric acid (legal requirement + may help taste too), add Sorbic acid or better Ca Sorbate to the fruit, consider perhaps adding some Benzoate.

There's science and food safety considerations behind those ingredients one finds on the label.   No doubt the militant 'vegan liberation front' will be along shortly to tell us all how they turn green and spotty if they eat chocolates /jam with 'preservatives'......    

Bottomline:   You're perhaps in search of a bit of a unicorn, i.e.  A simple formulation without additives that has a 'long shelflife'.  

Good Luck

Mark

I remember in one of my courses doing a raspberry pate-de-fruit and letting it set in frames. Then blitz it in the robot coupe with a little raspberry liqueur to help loosen the texture and make it pipeable. I'm not sure alcohol has much impact on the aW value, but it does help to extend shelf life. Alcohol in your chocolates can also be an issue in some parts of the world (local regulations etc).

I bought the small Mindo press. It is just like in the Youtube Video.
It worked fine with a 20 Ton Jack but it is messy, takes a lot of time, requires a hot environment and to heat the cylinder for good results. I have used this piston/cylinder twice, and got 650Gr of nearly white butter out of 1.5Kg of liquor. 
However, I am happy to have now found a local producer of Cacao butter who uses organic fermented beans (most don't) and have not used the cylinder since. It is a lot of work for seemingly a small result. 

For a long time I have been working to get a strong fruit flavor in fillings for chocolates, especially from the more "timid" fruits (such as pear, peach, rhubarb, and apricot).  I have no issues with assertive fruits such as raspberry, strawberry, orange, passion fruit, yuzu, etc.  With the first group, whenever chocolate of any type, even white, is added, the fruit flavor tends to disappear.  I have used a Ewald Notter recipe that calls for two layers of filling, one with what he calls a "raspberry coulis" (actually raspberry purée with pectin as a binding agent--it's a pâte de fruit but with a looser texture).  So I tried this idea with pear and with apricot purées, and the results were delicious, with strong fruit flavor.  Then I tested the water activity of these jellies, and the results were alarming.  Their water activity level of 0.93 is well above the 0.85 usually given as a maximum for the ganache to be safe for more than three weeks (and that is assuming good storage conditions, which of course cannot be guaranteed once the product has been sold).

My point to this is whether anything can be done to lower a jelly's water activity that would also not mask the fruit flavor.  I'm going to do some experimentation when I have a chance, but any suggestions would be helpful. Adding sorbitol?  invert sugar?  cocoa butter?  Initially I made the mistaken assumption that binding the fruit with pectin would help (because it looks as if it does reduce water), but apparently such is not the case.

Nice, Jim. That EZt is sure a useful device! I got one from Kerry recently, and its proven an invaluable resource in my kitchen.

I have been experimenting lately with meltaways.  I used Greweling's basic mint meltaway proportions (520g chocolate, 155g coconut oil) but made it into a coconut/banana filling for chocolates.  I used coconut oil that has a coconut taste (unrefined).  I was apprehensive that too many additives (banana purée, lemon juice, coconut rum, vanilla extract, coconut flakes) might interfere with the eutectics reaction that creates a meltaway.  They did not, and the resulting filling was somewhat softer than a meltaway, perhaps what you are seeking.  I should mention that I added 1% cocoa butter  (actually the cocoa butter "silk" produced by the EZtemper machine) to aid in the firming up of the mixture.  I stirred it over cold water for a short time until I could feel it thickening, then piped it into molds.  I am pleased with the result and plan to try it with other flavors (though in those cases using the refined coconut oil that has no taste).

Interesting tidbit:  a huge amount of the virgin olive oil on the store shelves has been blended with other oils.  olive oil is very expensive, and frankly most people don't really know what virgin olive oil really is.  it's also difficult to analytically prove that the oil's been blended in - that said, some folks you know on this board have spent some time developing spectral methods that can determine the origin of oils, and if they're pure or not.  Those methods were used by the good ol' us of a to do a market basket assessment of olive oils - and lo and behold, i forget the numbers, but something like 70% of what was tested was deemed to be tainted.  Manufacturers were (are) doing this to realize cost savings.   Sneaky business, that is.  Oils of a more commoditized nature (coconut, palm, canola, soy, etc) aren't really affected because they're already so low in price, there's not much incentive to blend in less expensive oils to impact their cost structure.

The other noteworthy thing is this:  cocoa butter hardness varies.  A lot.  A tremendous amount.  Grewling likely doesn't know this, and when he writes his recipies, he's using standard chocolate, the vendors of which may or may not be controlling for hardness by DSC.  If you thought the recipe was ok, but not quite there, don't hesitate to modify it a bit to suit your tastes - your chocolate may have been a bit harder than the one he used, or simply your tastes are different than his.  Add another 1% liquid oil and see if that is more the texture you're after or not.  Trial and error here is your friend.  Also if the chocolate you're starting with has milk fat in it or not (and how much) will play a huge role in textural issues (milk fat will make it softer).

So, the smaller the droplet size of your oil (remember, you're making a dispersion), the smoother your texture will be.  I'm n ot going to comment on precisely which equipment Lindt is using, but the more agitation (energy) you can put into your mixture, the better you'll like the results i wager.

Any oil that is liquid at room temperature will work for you for this.  Even some that aren't liquid at room temperature will work due to something calle eutectics (but that's another lesson for another time).  Note that the reason your oils are liquid at room temperature are because they are 'built' from fatty acids that are short.  The shorter they are, the lower the melting point of  your oil, and also the less stable they are (more likely to go rancid).  If you mix the mixture vigorously for a long time, you're incorporating air into your mixture as well.  This isn't a problem for a lot of oils, but if elect to use oils that are very unsaturated, and very short fatty acid chains - you'll end up with rancidity more quickly as a result.

Thanks Sebastian and Clay!

I have got a few follow up questions for both of you... I tried making the Meltaway by Greweling. It is ok. I find the texture to be a little hard (before it melts in you mouth). I notice in those Lindt truffles they have a creamy texture -- more like a ganache than a meltaway. Do you think they use a special mixer to achieve that?

For the Olive Oil Version, should one emulsify that just like a ganache -- I use a robot coupe. I thought putting olive in a food processor turned it bitter.

Thanks for all the insight! I have learned a lot from both of you!

There are other alternative oils you can use ... I've tasted some pretty fantasting olive oil ganaches made with truly excellent oils; you can taste the spice and grass and other notes with the right chocolate!

Pretty easy, actually.  First, you need a low melting point coconut oil (there's many different kinds - i suggest a natural coconut oil with a MP of 72F).

Then, simpy mix it in with you melted chocolate, and any flavorings you want for your center.  The 'soft' liquid coconut oil will interfere with the cocoa butter's ability to crystallize, and as a result,  you'll get a softer texture.  I might suggest 8% add in to begin with.  Some folks swear that you first have to temper your chocolate before adding the oil, some swear you don't.  I'm in the second category.  Try both and see what you prefer.  Play with the levels of your oil addition until you achieve the texture you're after.

Since the Aw is very, very low, you'll essentially never have spoilage issues.  Shelf life will now be a function of oil rancidity.

Hi there,

I noticed some manufacturers make a creamy ganache with coconut oil (not coconut milk or cream of coconut). Lindt is a good example of this. Does anyone have any type of recipe like this? I imagine the result will have a long shelf life.

Thanks for your input!

Daniel

Rosen -

Welcome to The Chocolate Life. We are here to help!

Hilliard Little Dipper

$995 + $75 ground shipping in continental US (plus sales tax if purchased in Washington State)

We’ve graduated to larger equipment and no longer need our Hilliard Little Dipper chocolate tempering machine. This work-horse of a machine is an excellent upgrade if you’ve been using smaller tempering machines or are planning to temper between 1.5 lbs and 25lbs of chocolate a day. Plugs into a 120 volt outlet.

The machine uses two 100-watt lightbulbs as a heating mechanism, and they’re easy to change once you unscrew the metal backing on the machine. It’s also relatively easy to unscrew the baffle and the bowl for cleaning or changing chocolate, as necessary. Temperature is controlled by a mechanical knob and the tempering bowl motor is controlled by an off-on switch.

Contact Lauren Adler (206) 792-6799 or lauren@chocolopolis.com

 Hilliard Little Dipper 3.jpg - 999KB

It does not.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!
I imagine a sealed plastic bag in a carton box should satisfy your nib transportation.
Just like when transporting almonds and other seeds or nuts.

Hi,

Thank you for the opportunity to sign up to this forum.

I'm a chocolate-making hobbist from Cornwall, England. I've joined to discuss chocolate and hopefully improve my skills.

Rosen

It is about the roasting of the nibs in there shell. I have read that when roasting the cocoa beans, the shell takes up a part of the fat that is released during heating. 

I'm interested to hear as well. I have access to a Unox, so I'd like to hear practical experience others have had with it.

Chocolats du Calibressan in Carpinteria, Santa Barbara County, CA is looking for a chocolatier, Full time, long term. Must have knowledge of chocolate tempering, molding and piping. In addition you will be trained in the process of my chocolate making. Salary start at $14.00/h DOE. Email cover letterand resume jeanmichel@chococalibressan.com

Thanks @ning-geng-ong!

I will share roasting results once I receive the machine.

[quote="Daniel Haran"]

Can you link to the exact motor and springs you bought? Thanks

Daniel,

Here's the specifications:

OLI Vibrator: MVE.0041.36.115 Electric Vibrator Motor, Single Phase, 2 Poles, 3,600 RPM, 60 Hz, 115 Volt , 143.30 Lb Output Force ( *adjustable)   

This may be a wee bit too powerful in truth, but better too much force than not enough.  n.b. Adjustable with blade rotation and or the router speed control.  It's also important to note the Fc these produce is different depending on the electrical supply frequency  i.e.  50 Hz (Most of the planet ) versus 60Hz (USA).   You get considerably more Fc (centrifugal force) at 60Hz versus 50Hz) so it is possible in the States that the smaller (cheaper) MVE 21 series motors may also be suitable?  However, I've not tested one on this set up.

* Setting the blades inside the motor: Turning 4 blades... (see instructions with motor) provides a 16# centrifugal force, (11.1% of maximum Fc) this setting in combination with the springs I used seems good.  Tested as supplied the motor could probably vibrate an entire 6' x 4' kitchen table. Now there's an idea....!

Springs:    Part Number    C08500922250S
Compressed Length    1.413  inches Outside Diameter    0.85  inches
Wire Diameter    0.092  inches  Spring Rate    25.32 Inch Pounds Load Capacity    16.98  pounds  Overall Length    2.25  inches Size    0.85"
Material Type    stainless_steel_302
Specification Met    AMS 5688 , ASTM A313                                                       Number of Items    10
UNSPSC Code    31161904
Currently Backordered  on Amazon, Pack of 10 - $23 when available.

I made the bushings to hold the 4 springs such that there is about 1" free on each of coils, this clearly modifies the relative spring rate,  but again seems to work well.

Have fun! and if you build one be sure post details....

Mark

Can you link to the exact motor and springs you bought? Thanks

I see where you are coming from but I don't exactly understand the statement about nibs having higher fat content.

Hello Ning-geng-ong, Thank you very much for your reply. My first idea was to import beans but there are some benefits when working with nibs such as higher fat content of the nibs, shorter roast period. Plus  I save some money from not buying a crusher and winnowing machine. 

Hello Guusb, why not start with dried beans instead of nibs?

Hello Everyboby! 

I have a questions about importing cocoa nibs to Europe. I want to import unroasted cocoa nibs from Asia to proces to chocolate in Europe. Does anyone know in what kind of material best to transport cocoa nibs so that it will not effect the quality? 

So... there's a situation about a great book based on the taste of one person. Aren't all food, wine, etc. books based on the taste of one or at least four persons? - and I don't even mention al the suggestions they make in their books. If I want to read a good book about some kind of product I can do two things: the first thing is enjoying a book about the product I love and ignore someone's taste and suggestions or take someone's suggestions and taste as a example to learn more about my favourite product. - In my own blog I also write about products based on my taste. Nothing wrong with that.

And than the grammar / translation: as a writer ( what I do next to blogging ) I also make grammar mistakes, this is what makes me human.

For me this book from Georg Bernardini is a masterpiece. I spend hours of time creating my own chocolate list. - till I found out about his book. Now I only look further for chocolate products that aren't in it. That's also why I ask him if there's another version coming up within 5 or 10 years. Unfortunately not... so, if there are
things people don't like about his book: here's a chance! - write it!

Good luck Georg with your chocolate... I'm still enjoying your book.

Tonny, Thanks for sharing, I'm excited for you. 

Just a quick update: I ended up ordering a Unox Mind.Maps and It's on its way to me - The Unox Sales & Marketing Director was very resourceful and helpful and in answering my questions and addressing my needs - Those Machines has outstanding controls and can be used almost anything beyond cacao and once you figure out your roasting profiles and store them, cacao roasting could be handled by unskilled personnel - Thank again Clay Gordon for the your valuable advice!  

@peterk, can you please share the your breakage discovery across the four different roaster types? Avoiding breakage during roasting is of importance to me.

The following equipment is for sale in the LA area. Pick up only. 

Robot Coupe R2N Commercial Processor

Used a handful of times only to grind chocolate

Like brand new

$700

Mol D'Art melter 12 kg, includes 2 additional 6kg pans

Gently used, like new $650

Commercial Drinking Chocolate Machine, brass finish

$250

Price Computing Electronic Scale, up to 30 Kg capacity

$150

Please contact Elizabeth at (818)639-2417

 image.jpg - 133KB

We have 1,000+ lbs of organic, fairtrade, cocoa butter warehoused in Ohio.

Purchased from Atlantic Cocoa last year.

Packed in 25 kg boxes. Asking price $4.50/lb.

If interested email miles@perfectfuel.com

More molds still available.

Let me know if you are looking for some excellent molds, 0.5 oz cavities for a great price.

-Miles (email above)

Nino,

We did exactly that, the same beans on four different roaster types, tasted them off against each other as nibs and then as liquor. One of our conclusions was that the breakage has a greater effect than recognized. As far as " brighter" I prefer to think of it as complexity.

WOW, Brad and Clay agreeing on something? how long have i been away from this forum???  what is happening!? ha ha ha!

Good luck with the factory Brad! following the process on FB...

We have a fluid-bed roaster that we built locally (South Africa) together with our coffee roaster/engineer friends. 

Compared to the drum roaster i previosly owned, it is fast and it doesn’t break the cocoa beans while tumbling, meaning the beans roast evenly and no broken-burned nibs end up later in the chocolate mix.

Once I figured out the profile I want for my beans, the parameters are set and practically anyone can roast! Compared to the drum-roasting it is almost a walk in the park.

 I used to work with a drum roaster, and although is very difficult to compare (i use now different beans) I agree that the fluid-bed gives a “brighter” roast than the drum one. it has  enhanced the fruity notes of the beans and it is very consistent.

it would be fun to test the same beans in both type of roaster to see what really is the difference between the two!  

Cheers

Nino

Hi Clay,

thanks so much for clarifying, this is helping shed some light for me. We have access to a Selmi Legend and that's what we have been using. Regarding tempering by hand, we have done that at the beginning and never had any issues with it, which I guess means we were never challenged in that aspect. We have already looked into tempering curves and yes we do see some clarity from that. Do you have any advice regarding the Selmi Legend, or any other thoughts on what might help us get insights?

Brad/Clay

Thanks again for the advice. My background is organic superfoods so I tend to focus too much on taking care of a niche. I'll instead focus on making the best hot chocolate possible.

I'll start with the recipe Brad suggested and adjust from there. I didnt quite get how to take it from kitchen to mobile vehicle to hot chocolate in customers hands?